Sun. Oct. 24, 2021 – well, was it good for you?

By on October 24th, 2021 in polemic, WuFlu

Damp and cool-ish, some sun, if we’re lucky. Yesterday ended up that way, light misty drizzle. That stifled some of my plans. Teh intarwebs ate more of my day. Who knew my time in Hollywood would have relevance here?

I don’t want to spend any more time on it, unless someone has read through the relevant threads and comments at Aesop’s and the whole comment thread here yesterday and still has real questions. I’ll try again to state what I believe and why, and why you should believe me. It comes down to this being a workplace accident. Baldwin was not acting as a private citizen out in the world where one set of rules applies. He was working, in a [nominally] controlled environment, at the direction of others, under a different set of rules. They are different because the work aims to create the illusion of dangerous reality, while minimizing the actual danger. That the rules work when followed is attested to by the safety record of the industry. That the rules were not followed in this case seems pretty clear and the result is death, injury, and trauma, followed by massive economic losses. The economics are important because it was WORK undertaken by a business, and economic considerations probably contributed to the situation.

In the working environment, under the rules established, the actor IS NOT responsible for gun safety. Like it or not, he is not. The actor is not in any way shape or form a “competent person” under workplace safety laws. The actor is not a “responsible person” under workplace safety laws. They have only the general responsibility to be safe at work that every employee has. They are very fancy ‘temp’ workers. Actors, even principals (main characters) might only be on set for a couple of days total. They don’t necessarily know anything at all about movies, production, anyone’s job, or any other thing besides ‘stand here, look here, say this, do this.’ The job of keeping all these baby ducks safe and getting a usable work product out of them falls to the professionals in the production. They include people who DO meet the definition of “competent person” and “responsible person”. The crew is there for the duration, the actors come and go. The actors are literally shuttled and herded, coddled and ‘managed’. Everything is done for them that can possibly be done because they can’t be trusted to do it themselves.

If this sounds awful to you, again, it doesn’t matter. This is the way it works, and you are not an actor. FWIW, most ‘actors’ are not primarily actors either. Cliches are sometimes cliches for a reason. Sometimes they are not and there are actors who are sharp as razors. There are football players who are Rhodes Scholars too, but most of them are not. Even an incredibly sharp actor doesn’t necessarily have any interest in learning about something he’ll be using for 10 minutes out of two days, 3 times a year. And that’s how long and how often he might hold a gun in a movie shoot, if he’s a working character actor. An action star might get considerable screen time using weapons but actually shooting them is only a small part of the time on screen and a vanishingly small part of their yearly work hours. I mean, jeez, how many times do you hear gun people complaining about guns or techniques shown in the movies? Well, that actor might have spent a whole couple of hours over a week holding a gun. And then he did nothing for two years, before showing up on set for his three day shooting call for his next project. They are pretending to competence, and the vastly larger crew that shoots the film makes it possible for them to do so.

The actors are usually the least safe, and least competent people involved, which is why the competent crew people are the ones trusted to make decisions like “is this gun safe”. FFS, you wouldn’t trust an actor to make life or death decisions in an operating room, why would you let him make that decision with a gun? His whole life is pretending to competence he doesn’t have.

I get it that people are angry that this particular anti-gun douchebag isn’t going to be held responsible for a deadly accident involving a firearm that happened in his workplace. If it had happened at his home, or your home, or on the street I’d be making a different argument. I don’t go into mines and tell the miners that their work rules are stupid and criminally negligent when someone dies. I don’t go down to the fire station and tell the firefighters that they are doing it wrong because I wouldn’t do it the way they do. (I might lobby that their doctrine should be changed, but not at the station house.) I don’t tell pilots that they are full of sh!t for believing that their way is the safest way they can think of to do things, even when their way breaks down and kills people.

I once did enough rigging (hanging stuff in the air) in the theater and entertainment world that I was at least competent enough to spot bad rigging when I saw it. Then I helped set up a Cirque du Soleil show and realized I knew NOTHING about circus rigging. It was completely different from what I did know, and looked unsafe as HELL to me. But it wasn’t. They had CENTURIES of tradition and methods of work to draw on, and smart people adapting it to new materials.

This is all to say that a movie set is a workplace. The actors are employees, and temps at that. They have no expectation of competence outside of pretending to be something they are not. They are told what to do, guided and instructed at every step, the way is made clear for them, and they do their job, which is only to convince you of the lie, and the truth of the story. The crew is the responsible party, in every sense of the word. A shoot is not your workplace. It’s not a town square, or anywhere in real life. The rules are different because they have to be, because they are what keeps the workers safe, just like the rules in a mine are different from the rules in a restaurant, are different from the rules for a steeplejack, or a merchant marine vessel, or an aircraft carrier.

The movie business – Hollywood – is an industry with its own set of rules and regulations, its own set of laws in some places, and its own way of doing business. It’s not a mine. It’s not a daycare. It’s not a shooting range, or a gun club, or a school for actors. Compared to other industries it’s incredibly safe. Compared to other regular gun users it’s astoundingly safe.

As an actor, if the reports so far hold up, Baldwin was not responsible for the death and injury. As a manager/ maybe part owner of the company, he might have responsibility if his decisions as a manager/owner contributed to the accident. The armorer has the primary responsibility in fact, legally, and in practice. The AD who handed the gun to Baldwin and declared it ‘safe’ might be found to have more responsibility than the armorer, but that’s for lawyers and courts to decide, he certainly shares it with the armorer. That is my understanding under the work rules and practices prevailing in the industry. It’s the understanding of the knowledgeable lawyers I quoted in comments yesterday, of the crew actually working on the set, and of almost everyone working in the business who has commented.

It’s clear that in this case the industry rules were not followed, and actually competent people were not involved. People WILL pay for that. It just might not be the anti-gun hypocrite Baldwin.

And I hope that’s all I’ll have to say about that.

Now, don’t join the blood dancing howler monkeys who WILL use this for more attacks on our gun rights. And because I blog about prepping, consider that they might ram something through, and think about the effect on you and prep accordingly.

Don’t be distracted from the real threats we’re facing. Keep stacking.

nick

67 Comments and discussion on "Sun. Oct. 24, 2021 – well, was it good for you?"

  1. Steve Mac says:

    Nick

    Well said. I am a lurker who has only posted once or twice. I read the comments on a 24 hour delay because they provide lots of useful information. To answer your question from yesterday on barter items. Fire extinguishers. I think you could easily convince someone of their value given the possibility of no fire department support and might be something one could trade for an item one might really need. Just picked up 2 more at Home Depot yesterday for less than $10 each. Thanks for this blog. It always provides insights into the challenges we face today. 

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  2. Lynn says:

    With VW, the pain is felt in the US with replacement parts, and the gas cars are Hecho en Mexico, which results in a lot of quality issues long term.

    The “Dieselgate” scandal was the direct result of the US certification process being so onerous.

    Dieselgate was the direct result of the Bosch Nox reactor being designed in Germany and undersized for the required application.  Bosch promised VW that the Nox reactor would only cost $200 or so.  The correctly sized reactor cost would have been $350 or so.  Since the Nox reactor was undersized, they could not run it all the time or it would fail.  So, they programmed the engine management software to only run the reactor when people were watching it.  Amazing technical subterfuge that almost worked. They installed the tech on millions of cars across the world, not just VWs. Porsches and other brands too.

    And it was not just cost. The correctly sized reactor was larger and would not fit under the car. Space is at a premium under there and the design for that generation of cars was already set in place with metal stamping, etc.

  3. Greg Norton says:

    Charmin Blue was all gone at our local Sam's yesterday, but the store had plenty of the Members Mark brand. Limit 1.

  4. Greg Norton says:

    The LSU coach probably isn't even bothering with a Christmas tree.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/lsu-orgeron-part-ways-years-title-80633319

  5. drwilliams says:

    Now for a rare good Hollywood story:

    In 2011 PBS did a special on the Lennon Sister "Same Song, Separate Voices". It was slightly updated last year, and is available on YouTube:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXCW48RJaZk

    My exposure to the Lennon Sisters started and ended with the Lawrence Welk Show. That show had to be on at my grandparents every Sunday evening, and there wasn't much about the show I found palatable.

    Nonetheless, their story is captivating, their voices beautiful, and in 2011 when the show originally aired, they had been working together for an amazing 55 years, and they have tacked on another decade since.

    Recommended.

  6. drwilliams says:

    Do you rip off your shingles before finding out if new ones are available? It’s painful to watch those that do

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/10/22/do-you-rip-off-your-shingles-before-finding-out-if-new-ones-are-available-its-painful-to-watch-those-that-do/

    "Another serious problem will soon be the shortage of secure power generation because of Germany’s nuclear and the coal phase-out, which has already begun. Not only is this driving up prices. There will be risks of power supply outages during the winter, with possible targeted or involuntary shutdowns to keep the grid from collapsing."

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/10/24/german-energy-prices-going-through-the-roof-supply-tightens-as-leaders-botch-energy-policy/

    German suicide continues apace.

    It's doubtful that we will learn anything–the green weinies bankrolled by the commies have made our educational system their propaganda machine for too many decades.

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  7. Nick Flandrey says:

    @drwilliams

    Hollywood firearms consultant Bryan Carpenter of Dark Thirty Film Services

    That's the same guy that Divemedic linked and quoted.  I went to their website.   It REEKS of poser.   The company is in New Orleans, the principals all have other gigs they're flogging.  The descriptions of their quals are all vague and full of "operators operating operationally" stuff, to quote an internet meme.  

    After years of working in high-risk, high-stress environments as operators, handlers, and instructors, the team at Dark Thirty Film has taken their comprehensive background in private military operations and law enforcement and applied it to work that’s a bit more … laidback and fun. Much like our experience in the military, our philosophy is defined by honor, dignity, character, and respect.

    Bryan is a veteran private military contractor currently working in the film industry as an armorer, trainer, stunt performer and producer.

    That's a lot of jobs that are pretty unrelated, and none are listed in IMDB.

    Dawn Carpenter … a cool chick with great taste in T-shirts and wine. Dawn has worked in the private contracting community for more than 10 years as an administrative coordinator, senior executive department lead, and project manager…   She also serves as a close protection agent in the film industry, specializing in keeping the ladies safe.

    She's an admin and project manager, who isn't actually licensed in Louisiana as a personal protection officer, at least under that name.

    Their list of credits isn't.  It's a list of productions with no details.   The 'see more' list at IMDB is for another company, possibly their prior effort.  There weren't any independent links to any of their claimed credits in IMDB under the company name.

    The guy isn't a "Hollywood" anything.  He's a guy with a vague "been there done that took the trophy" resume' that to my eye looks like more than it probably is.  He is based in NOLA, works in NOLA.

    n

    (FWIW, my resume lists specific roles in each specific production.  NOLA is a small market, and everyone has something else going on that helps pay the bills, so that alone isn't too unusual.  And a lot of companies in entertainment are essentially an office and a phone list, including several I've worked for, so again, not damning by itself.   IMDb doesn't have me listed for the MoW as I quit over safety issues and working conditions, the Fox special happened before IMDb was a thing, and the entry is really barebones, and MTV stuff isn't listed.  All this guy's work should have been in it though if he did anything more than park cars.)

  8. ~jim says:

    My exposure to the Lennon Sisters started and ended with the Lawrence Welk Show. 

    That reminds me of something that was bugging me yesterday when I saw a working jukebox complete with a selection of 60s hits. It was a Wurlitzer, and a little voice in my head recalls a TV personality introducing so-and-so playing at the Mighty Wurlitzer The braintrace dead-ends right there. Any idea what I'm talking about? It's just a tiny little snippet along the lines of, "Thank you Don Pardo."

     

  9. Nick Flandrey says:

    Well, I was up late because someone was wrong on the internet….

    It's 81F and 81%RH this late morning, with part sun and a gentle breeze.  Perfect for working outdoors.

    And that's my plan.  Either here, at my secondary, or my ebay storage unit…

    Depending on the wife's schedule and picking up D2 from GS camp, of course.

    n

  10. Nick Flandrey says:

    @steve mac, thanks, I'm glad you find it useful!

    Yep, fire extinguishers.   If I was building a retreat, I'd look hard at residential sprinklers too, but that is pretty high level…

    When rural fire response times are 20 minutes or longer, you are really on your own.

    n

  11. Greg Norton says:

    That reminds me of something that was bugging me yesterday when I saw a working jukebox complete with a selection of 60s hits. It was a Wurlitzer, and a little voice in my head recalls a TV personality introducing so-and-so playing at the Mighty Wurlitzer The braintrace dead-ends right there. Any idea what I'm talking about? It's just a tiny little snippet along the lines of, "Thank you Don Pardo."

    Probably Letterman pre CBS.

  12. Nick Flandrey says:

    This provides a plausible mechanism….

    https://www.tmz.com/2021/10/23/alec-baldwin-rust-gun-accident-used-off-set-target-practice/

    And this provides some explanation of how and why…

    https://www.tmz.com/2021/10/24/assistant-director-rust-complaints-gun-safety-shooting/

    The assistant director on the set of "Rust" who told Alec Baldwin the prop gun he was about to fire was safe has allowed an unsafe working environment on previous productions … this according to someone who worked with him on a previous production.

    Propmaker Maggie Goll worked with A.D. Dave Halls in 2019 on Hulu's "Into the Dark" series. She says, "At first he seemed like an older, affable first [A.D.] with the usual run of idiosyncrasies, but that facade soon disappeared," adding, "He did not maintain a safe working environment."

    It's impressive that she went on record with the allegation. 

    n

  13. MrAtoz says:

    Ruh, Roh:

    REVEALED: 'Careless' and 'inexperienced' armorer, 24, in charge of firearms on Alec Baldwin's Rust brought filming to a HALT on her last movie set after 'giving gun to child actress, 11, without checking it'

    I'm not sure why she was hired. Maybe as a favor to the production? And the revolver was used recreationally for target practice. Something stinks. I assume the accident was filmed and will show whether something foul was going on.

  14. MrAtoz says:

    And, Geebus:

    Fox News host, debate moderator Chris Wallace calls Jen Psaki ‘one of the best press secretaries ever’

    Another red pilled "news" man. I guess being the best liar means best press secretary. 

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  15. Greg Norton says:

    I'm not sure why she was hired. Maybe as a favor to the production? And the revolver was used recreationally for target practice. Something stinks. I assume the accident was filmed and will show whether something foul was going on.

    You're kidding right? Someone wanted to have sex with her.

  16. MrAtoz says:

    You're kidding right? Someone wanted to have sex with her.

    LOL! Baldwin? It's about time to upgrade the wife.

  17. Nick Flandrey says:

    I take it back that Bryan W Carpenter doesn't list his actual resume'…  there is a link to IMDb that has a page that I didn't get when I searched on site.

    https://www.imdb.com/name/nm6355584/

    He does have a work history as an armorer on set.  

    I still think his company site is sketchy as hell.

    n

  18. Greg Norton says:

    Fox News host, debate moderator Chris Wallace calls Jen Psaki ‘one of the best press secretaries ever’

    Another red pilled "news" man. I guess being the best liar means best press secretary. 

    Another case of someone thinking with another organ besides their brain.

    Psaki is probably on the way out to "spend more time with her family".

  19. Nick Flandrey says:

    Baldwin? It's about time to upgrade the wife.

    –funnily that's the only vibe I didn't get from the past year's press coverage of him, in fact I got the opposite.   But there is that whole 'lying media that lies' thing.

    n

  20. Greg Norton says:

    LOL! Baldwin? It's about time to upgrade the wife.

    Not Baldwin. Someone else made that hiring decision, however.

  21. Nick Flandrey says:

    I'm not sure why she was hired.

    –cuz grrls rool.   And she lives there, I think.  And I'm sure she was cheaper than LA talent, if only because of the local connection.  And she didn't kill anyone on her first production.

    n

  22. Nick Flandrey says:

    Why is the 'Fauxi torturers puppies' story making the rounds again?

    n

    1
  23. drwilliams says:

    @Nick

    I don’t go into mines and tell the miners that their work rules are stupid and criminally negligent when someone dies. I don’t go down to the fire station and tell the firefighters that they are doing it wrong because I wouldn’t do it the way they do. (I might lobby that their doctrine should be changed, but not at the station house.) I don’t tell pilots that they are full of sh!t for believing that their way is the safest way they can think of to do things, even when their way breaks down and kills people.

    I've seen several arguments along this line.

    In each case the actions of the boat captain, plane pilot, miner, firefighter, etc. have to be done within the framework of the law and governmental authority. Where special rules exist, they are codified by the appropriate governing authority under the law. The US DOT has the Maritime Administration, and the Federal Aviation Administration. The US Department of Labor has the Mine Safety and Health Administration, and of course, OSHA, with their new-found ability to regulate vaccination in the workplace.

    So, not being Hollywood, I have to ask: Where are the Hollywood "rules" codified and by what governing authority?

     

  24. Alan says:

    But…but..why aren't we talking anymore about Gabby and Brian?

  25. Alan says:

    >> Nope.  The death doesn't change the fact that he had every reason to believe it was safe.  The death happened after he pulled the trigger.  

    So there was one bit from the HotAir piece linked to yesterday that stood out…

    "Three accidental discharges before the fateful encounter between Baldwin and Hutchins. In fact, from what the Times hears, it’s not even clear that Baldwin pulled the trigger when Hutchins was shot. The paper describes the incident this way: “Baldwin removed the gun from its holster once without incident, but the second time he did so, ammunition flew toward the trio around the monitor.”

    “Did the scene simply call for him to pull his gun and point it, without firing, only to have the weapon discharge accidentally? A source with knowledge of the previous misfires on the set told Deadline, “They just fired loud pops – a person was just holding it in their hands and it went off.” It’s not clear if he’s describing what happened with Baldwin’s stunt double — presumably so — but if it’s true that the gun went off when someone was “just holding it” then the weapon was malfunctioning."

  26. Greg Norton says:

    Why is the 'Fauxi torturers puppies' story making the rounds again?

    Fauci is going to be thrown under the bus soon. His usefulness has reached an end since he is no longer credible.

     

  27. Alan says:

    So from what I heard from several of the gub "experts" that come out of the woodwork to get their 5 minutes of fame on the MSM, in instances where the 'effect' of a real gubshot is needed, a real gub is used because the nature of the blanks cartridges and needing the gub to provide the flash and the bang.

    Is that basically correct?

  28. drwilliams says:

    Onions imported from Mexico linked to salmonella in Texas and Oklahoma:

    https://www.popsci.com/health/salmonella-contamination-onion

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  29. ech says:

    The Covid vaccines do have ingredients which are redacted from published information, however.
     

    Ingredients listed here.

    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/covid-19-vaccines-us.html#Appendix-C

  30. ech says:

    That's one of the things the IA was willing to strike over.  They recognized the much greater and yet more mundane danger of driving while fatigued.

    Yep. There has been an uptick in accidents by crew driving home from shoots. There were two in Austin on a shoot that was doing lots of night work and had 1 hour drives each way from set to homes. The crew threated a walk out and got some relief.

     

  31. Jenny says:

    Got the rabbits and the last of our bits and pieces moved with the help of friends yesterday. 
    It was quite the sight, six rabbit cages strapped into the bed of a little ancient truck, motoring through big bad Anchorage. Buyer does their final walk through today, we sign documents Tuesday, and are down to a single mortgage after darn near a year. The relief is enormous though I won't relax until the check is deposited. 
     

    Though I did little I am thoroughly exhausted from yesterday's exertions. Today is rest and recovery. We have had a long slow Fall. I think I have another week before weather drops below freezing and stays there. I need to get poop chutes up in the rabbitry, and build their watering system.  Manure management is the higher priority. I didn't manage manure for the last two weeks and yesterday had probably 30 gallons of manure and 12 gallons of urine. That's from six adults and three juveniles. Culling two unproductive does in the next couple weeks. That'll carry us through winter better. Rabbit manure can be applied directly to a garden without composting. It's rich stuff and highly valued by gardeners. Getting rid of it is easy. 
     

    Once snow flies I'll use a sled to stock up on feed close to the rabbitry. Carrying fifty pound sacks down a muddy slope isn't the smart way to use my muscle. 
     

    We aren't ready for winter but will manage. 

  32. ~jim says:

    Probably Letterman pre CBS.

    Yeah, that's it. Thanks! 

  33. Nick Flandrey says:

    Everyone that knows how the stuff is supposed to work has been referring to their on set safety protocols.

    https://www.csatf.org/production-affairs-safety/safety-bulletins/

    is one link.

    there are many groups involved in setting standards for production.

    Screen Actors Guild (SAG/AFTRA)

    Directors Guild (DGA)

    The relevant union, usually IATSE, predominently the LA locals, 33, 44 and their rules are usually baked into their contract terms. Most of hollywood production is covered under one or more collective bargaining agreements, or their independent contracts use the IA contract as a starting point.

    CSA for Cinematographers

    etc. It’s a very guild and union based industry.

    For example, this safety committee

    AMPTP and
    CSATF-administered Labor-Management Safety Committee for review,
    investigation, interpretation and advisory recommendations to the
    Employer(s). The CSATF-administered Labor Management Safety
    Committee is the industry-wide Safety Committee consisting of the
    IATSE and its West Coast Studio Local Unions, the Basic Crafts
    Unions, the Screen Actors Guild–American Federation of Television and
    Radio Artists, the Directors Guild of America and representatives of the
    Producers.

    page 22 of https:\\local44.org\images\stories\Members\The-Crafts-Introduction.pdf

    details the responsibilities of the Props Master, wrt firearms.

    The Safety Bulletin referenced is in the pdf at the link above and clearly spells out a protocol for safe usage of a firearm on set.

    and it contains this SPECIFIC reference to pointing a gun at people or things

    GENERAL SAFE USE AND HANDLING OF FIREARMS
    1. Refrain from pointing a firearm at anyone, including yourself. If it is absolutely
    necessary to do so on camera, consult the Property Master (or, in his/her
    absence, the weapons handler and/or other appropriate personnel
    determined by the locality or the needs of the production) or other safety
    representative, such as the First A.D./Stage Manager. Remember that any object
    at which you point a firearm could be destroyed.

    It is a normal activity SPECIFICALLY acknowledged in the bulletin.

    Item 11 SPECIFICALLY addresses the fact that personnel can be “Directly in the line of fire.”

    11. Protective shields, eye, and hearing protection or other appropriate Personal
    Protective Equipment (PPE) shall be issued and utilized by all personnel in close
    proximity and/or directly in the line of fire.

    Further to recommended safe practices, there are OSHA compliance issues (sometimes mooted by the collective bargaining agreements, iirc) and state laws in most states regarding licensing and oversight.

    There is a reference to the NM state requirements in one of the articles. The link above mentions state and local additional requirements.

    My specific info is years out of date anyway but I’ve WRITTEN safety procedures involving other dangerous work like aerial work, and overhead lifting. there are binders full of safety stuff for every workplace and a film set isn’t an exception.

    Point is, there are industry ‘best practices’ and contract requirements. Productions go to out of the way places to specifically avoid some of these. There are always employers in every industry who are willing to cut corners on safety. Doesn’t mean those corners don’t exist.

    There are governing state and local laws and ordinances and the armorer or weapons master or property master is supposed to be the expert on them and how to work safely with the dangerous things, or to get advice on how to do so. It’s part of the job requirement.

    This production didn’t follow the industry procedures that almost everyone else mentions.

    n

    And note that there are rules for using LIVE ammo, so that also does happen, although rarely. Given the mention of vessels in the Safety Bulletin, I’m guessing that one place it comes up is shooting into water…

  34. ech says:

    And she lives there, I think.

     

    Word is that she is from Arizona. She may have been hired because everyone in NM is busy (possible) or she was cheaper. This is a low budget film, after all. (That's why they could bring in a non-union camera crew – if they were a major studio, they would have been covered by the IATSE contract.)

    So from what I heard from several of the gub "experts" that come out of the woodwork to get their 5 minutes of fame on the MSM, in instances where the 'effect' of a real gubshot is needed, a real gub is used because the nature of the blanks cartridges and needing the gub to provide the flash and the bang.

    Is that basically correct?

    It depends on budget. Bigger budget shows use replica guns and add the flash and bang via special effects. There are SFX companies that specialize in that. Also, if you shoot in NYC and some other places, you can't use real guns due to the gun laws.

    (Funny story. My brother was on a shoot where the main actor was "shooting" an automatic weapon that was a replica. On the first take, they had to yell "cut" because he was making gun noises and they could see his lips moving.)

     

  35. Nick Flandrey says:

    Well, that long reply to drwilliams got mangled.

    I got the server error, did ctrl a ctrl x, put one period in the box, and it posted, then I edited the comment, pasted all my comment text into it, and it posted.

    But none of the formatting made the paste.

    I had to edit again, adding the blockquotes by hand, and I left off some bold..

    I guess I should have ctrl a, ctrl x  after clicking the "source"  button if I want the formatting?

    n

  36. drwilliams says:

    @Nick

    I chopped the one last night into three parts, found the problem in the last part with a blockquote, cut it out, posted, and edited back in. At least the workaround worked.

  37. Alan says:

    And every on-screen expert has a different opinion as to who is the person that hands the gub to the actor.

    Is it the armorer, the AD, the prop master? 

    Or does it vary from set to set? 

  38. SteveF says:

    Nick, when a lawyer says “hypothetical” it doesn’t mean “I’m talking out my ass”. It means “Let’s stipulate this set of facts and proceed with our legal analysis accordingly.”

    I’m cognizent of what Nick and others have said about working on a movie set, which sums up as “The actor who pulled the trigger isn’t responsible because this is the way the system works.” That sounds reasonable but maybe that shouldn’t be the way it works. Plenty of times before, an underregulated industry has come under the spotlight and the law has clamped down on “standard practices”. I’m not saying that this should be done here, but it’s happened before and Hollywood may be at greater risk because their standard practices conflict with actual laws on the books concerning negligent homicide and such.

    In other news, I’ve been very busy the past week. Simpletons at work, whose self confidence exceeds their competence and conscientiousness, hosed the main database. Again. This caused a lot of extra work for those of us competent to fix others’ mistakes. And then, toward the middle of the week, I learned that my employer will be firing everyone who hasn’t gotten the clot shot, so I’ve been looking for a new job or contract. And then, toward the end of the week, there were non-work problems. That’s all on top of being in effect a single parent, of course.

    (So, if I can get my daughter married off — legal at her age in NYS with a court’s permission — and then I move out to a 1-BR apartment, at least 50% of my daily burden will be relieved. Hey, Sweetie, how well do you get along with Sam at school?)

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  39. SteveF says:

    I tried to post my preceding comment probably five times since six or eight hours ago. ISE (500 error) each time. Looked through the text for non-ascii characters and such and couldn't find any problems.

    Finally got it to post by making a stub post (literally just the word "stub") and then editing the comment and pasting in this text. FYI.

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  40. Nick Flandrey says:

    1st AD runs the set, and is responsible for everything that happens there.   Armorer seems to have split off from the Property Master, but the Safety Bulletins are very clear that it is the Prop Master or his delegate.   In current usage is seems that if there is a designated armorer, that is the person, or their assistant, to do the actual hand off.

    The reports read as if the AD just reached over and grabbed a gun.  That the armorer wasn't there is a violation, that he did so is a violation, that the Prop Master wasn't there is a violation, that there wasn't a designated Safety person (who I've been calling safety marshal or safety warden) is a violation. 

    Aesop put some additional links in a comment

    https://www.csatf.org/production-affairs-safety/safety-bulletins/
    https://www.csatf.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/01FIREARMS.pdf
    https://www.csatf.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/02LIVE_AMMUNITION.pdf

    https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=714028479313834812&postID=8521085236183702702&page=1&token=1635103134434

  41. Greg Norton says:

    Ingredients listed here.

    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/covid-19-vaccines-us.html#Appendix-C

    Courtesy of CDC. No agenda there.

    I came very close to getting a new job last month, and I was prepared to go get a J&J shot since they required it to enter their offices. However, absent an incentive like in-person employment, I'm not going to go get jabbed and risk an adverse reaction to continue sitting in my house during business hours.

    I still have a choice, and I made it. I’m not risking anyone’s life other than my own.

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  42. MrAtoz says:

    Is it usual to call a real gub a "prop gub" when used on a set? I thought props weren't real devices, etc. If it's true the gub was being used for casual target practice, isn't this a receipt for disaster?

  43. Nick Flandrey says:

    @steve,

    Plenty of times before, an underregulated industry has come under the spotlight and the law has clamped down on “standard practices”.

    –it's far from being an 'under-regulated' industry.  See Aesop's slightly deeper coverage of the Safety Bulletins at the comment linked above for more info about the CSATF.  EVERYONE, including the ambulance chasers, has reviewed the standards expressed in the bulletins and finds them to be sufficient.

    Tat grrl is going to eat this one.  If they were shooting the gun in question for fun, off set, there is video on phones or social media, they just can't help themselves.  She is legally and morally responsible, unless something else comes out.   Something may change IN THE FUTURE.  It often does after an accident, but 'edge cases make for bad policy.'  It may end up like pyro or lasers with national licensing for the people doing the work.  It will almost certainly result in more paperwork and stuff for cheaters to ignore.   If it drives up costs, it will provide even more incentive for low budget to go where they can't be seen, and ultimately make it less safe.  I'm sure someone will make that argument eventually, and I don't think they're wrong.    It's why so much industry moved offshore after all.

    n

  44. Nick Flandrey says:

    Is it usual to call a real gub a "prop gub" when used on a set? I thought props weren't real devices, etc. If it's true the gub was being used for casual target practice, isn't this a receipt for disaster?

    prop just means "property" as in property of the studio.  " Anything on the set that
    isn't nailed down – other than the actors – is Property."   It doesn't mean "fake" or "not real".  Cigarettes are 'hand' props and they are real.  So is food eaten on camera.  The cars are real.   A prop gun is a gun used on set.

    And yes, using the prop gun for fun off set is wrong on several levels and a direct violation of several of the rules.

    n

  45. MrAtoz says:

    Thanks, Mr. Nick. I'm sure someone was filming during the rehearsal or live shot. No one has mentioned video yet. Maybe the LEO seized it all.

  46. SteveF says:

    it's far from being an 'under-regulated' industry.

    My mistake. My comment had sneer quotes around "underregulated" but I deleted them in trying to find what was keeping the comment from being accepted, then I forgot to re-add them.

  47. Geoff Powell says:

    Moving, for a moment, from the sublime to the merely mundane, TPTB have decided, in their semi-infinite wisdom, that as of 00:01 hours tomorrow morning, it will cost me £32.50 ($45) to drive into the centre of London – defining Central London as starting one-and-a-half miles east of me, or 6 miles from the accepted cartographic centre, at Hyde Park Corner.

    That's £17.50 Ultra Low Emission Zone charge, and £15 Congestion Charge (I'm unsure whether the CC will immediately extend to the ULEZ limit. If it doesn't do so now, I'm sure it will in the fullness of time).

    I don't drive into London at the best of times – it's an exercise in masochism. Parking even more so. This charge ensures that it will never be "the best of times", unless there's a very good reason – the which can be counted on the fingers of one hand, with lots left over.

    G.

  48. Greg Norton says:

    I don't drive into London at the best of times – it's an exercise in masochism. Parking even more so. This charge ensures that it will never be "the best of times", unless there's a very good reason – the which can be counted on the fingers of one hand, with lots left over.

    New York City is working on tolling the surface streets on the south end of Manhattan Island. Once in place, the system will be able to charge by the city block rather than just at the choke points entering/exiting the zone.

    $45 will seem cheap when NYC gets rolling. Figure about five years. Tech isn’t the problem as much as political will.

  49. lynn says:

    I tried to post my preceding comment probably five times since six or eight hours ago. ISE (500 error) each time. Looked through the text for non-ascii characters and such and couldn't find any problems.

    Finally got it to post by making a stub post (literally just the word "stub") and then editing the comment and pasting in this text. FYI.

    That is the trick that I have been using lately also.

  50. Geoff Powell says:

    @~jim:

     Mighty Wurlitzer

    Although I vaguely knew of Wurlitzer jukeboxes, to me the above quote conjures visions of a Wurlitzer theatre or cinema organ. Playing one of those is an exercise in hand-foot co-ordination – you may not have realised that, in addition to the several piano-style keyboards, there's an entire over-size keyboard (or is that "foot-board"?) that you play with your feet, independently. So that could be 3 separate strands of melody all at the same time.

    As an example: Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor (BWV565)

    And another:    Mike Oldfield's "Tubular Bells" intro (as used in "The Exorcist")

    Note the way the organists sometimes seem to be almost dancing on the pedalboard. And these are 2-manual church organs. Theatre Wurlitzers might have up to 5 manuals, plus pedal, plus a "stuntbox" of assorted sounds that the player might want to use – the original purpose of a theatre organ was to provide accompaniment to silent movies.

    G.

     

  51. Greg Norton says:

    Although I vaguely knew of Wurlitzer jukeboxes, to me the above quote conjures visions of a Wurlitzer theatre or cinema organ. Playing one of those is an exercise in hand-foot co-ordination – you may not have realised that, in addition to the several piano-style keyboards, there's an entire over-size keyboard (or is that "foot-board"?) that you play with your feet, independently. So that could be 3 separate strands of melody all at the same time.

    The Tampa Theatre has a full Wurlitzer setup. Pre-covid, one member of a volunteer group would perform before a movie.

  52. Nick Flandrey says:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10126173/Cambridge-University-archive-slaps-trigger-warnings-classic-childrens-books.html

    -the book burnings are virtual for now…

    n

    And just for the record, stereotypes are stereotypes FOR A REASON.

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  53. Nick Flandrey says:

    Ok, some time ago I linked to a CDC advisory about a weird fatal illness that popped up in TX and OK, GA and MN.  It was normally only associated with overseas travel and none of the victims had traveled….

    It was a freaking ROOM AIR FRESHENER sold at Walmart, and sourced in India.

    https://emergency.cdc.gov/han/2021/han00455.asp?ACSTrackingID=USCDC_511-DM68599&ACSTrackingLabel=HAN%20454%20-%20General%20Public&deliveryName=USCDC_511-DM68599https://emergency.cdc.gov/han/2021/han00455.asp?ACSTrackingID=USCDC_511-DM68599&ACSTrackingLabel=HAN%20454%20-%20General%20Public&deliveryName=USCDC_511-DM68599

    Due to its nonspecific symptoms, melioidosis can initially be mistaken for other diseases such as tuberculosis, which can delay proper treatment. Burkholderia pseudomallei may also be misidentified by some automated identification methods in laboratory settings.

    The contaminated product identified by positive polymerase chain reaction (PCR) assay is the Better Homes and Gardens-branded Essential Oil Infused Aromatherapy Room Spray with Gemstones “Lavender & Chamomile” scent, manufactured in India. The spray was sold at Walmart between February and October 21, 2021, and was distributed in a limited number of stores and online nationwide. Whole genome sequencing results from the positive product sample are pending. This product was removed from stores and online marketplaces on October 21, 2021, and out of abundance of caution, the five other scents under the same brand were removed from Walmart marketplaces as well (Lemon & Mandarin, Lavender, Peppermint, Lime & Eucalyptus, and Sandalwood & Vanilla). Testing will be conducted on these additional scents as well. Recalls are being initiated by the Consumer Product Safety Commission and Walmart. CDC is working with the Kansas Department of Health and Environment, the Texas Department of State Health Services, the Minnesota Department of Health, the Georgia Department of Public Health, and federal partners to learn whether the other patients used the implicated product and if other products need to be further investigated. This investigation and response are ongoing, and CDC will share more information as it becomes available.

    Background
    Initial presentation for these four cases ranged from cough and shortness of breath to weakness, fatigue, nausea, vomiting, intermittent fever, and rash on the trunk, abdomen, and face. Two of the cases, one of them fatal, had several risk factors for melioidosis, including chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) and cirrhosis. The remaining cases had no known risk factors for melioidosis, though one case had a co-infection with SARS-CoV-2. Both pediatric cases had severe neurologic involvement.

    Burkholderia pseudomallei, the causative agent of melioidosis, is a Tier 1 select agentexternal icon that can infect animals and humans. Cases are most common in areas of the world with tropical and sub-tropical climates. The approximately one dozen cases reported to CDC annually predominantly occur in people returning from a country where the disease is endemic.

    Welcome to the global economy.

    n

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  54. SteveF says:

    Import the third world…

  55. Nick Flandrey says:

    And it's nasty and hard to treat…

    Consultation with infectious disease specialists is strongly recommended. Treat melioidosis with IV antibiotics (e.g., ceftazidime or meropenem) for at least two weeks. Depending on the response to therapy, IV treatment may be extended for up to eight weeks. Intravenous treatment is followed by oral trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole (TMP/SMX) for three to six months to prevent relapse. Amoxicillin/clavulanic acid can be used in persons with a contraindication to, or who cannot tolerate TMP/SMX.5

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  56. Greg Norton says:

    And just for the record, stereotypes are stereotypes FOR A REASON.

    "Little House On The Prairie" has been non-PC for a while, not so much for the content of the books as the political views of the author, her heirs, and those of the family who currently hold the copyrights.

  57. Greg Norton says:

    Ok, some time ago I linked to a CDC advisory about a weird fatal illness that popped up in TX and OK, GA and MN.  It was normally only associated with overseas travel and none of the victims had traveled….

    It was a freaking ROOM AIR FRESHENER sold at Walmart, and sourced in India.

    Go back about 20 years, and one of the fringe issues Dr. Dean Edell followed on his show was the effects of lavender and tea tree oil in soaps, shampoos, etc. possibly causing increased estrogen levels in male children. He strongly advocated a full study, but, since no one died, the FDA was hands off on the ingredients.

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  58. Nick Flandrey says:

    They labeled LHOTP for its stereotypical depiction of indians but apparently they're fine with the black face minstrel show the men of town perform at the Holidays…

    n

  59. SteveF says:

    but, since no one died, the FDA was hands off

    I'm not sure that's exactly right. Imagine if the soaps were causing girls to have suppressed estrogen levels or some other non-fatal effect.

  60. Alan says:

    >> That's £17.50 Ultra Low Emission Zone charge, and £15 Congestion Charge (I'm unsure whether the CC will immediately extend to the ULEZ limit. If it doesn't do so now, I'm sure it will in the fullness of time).

    @Geoff, so the Zone Charge doesn't apply to EVs?

  61. Alan says:

    >> New York City is working on tolling the surface streets on the south end of Manhattan Island. Once in place, the system will be able to charge by the city block rather than just at the choke points entering/exiting the zone.

    $45 will seem cheap when NYC gets rolling. Figure about five years. Tech isn’t the problem as much as political will.

    The Dems control both houses of the state legislature, the governor's office, the NYC mayor's office and the NYC Council.

    And yet completion in five years may not happen.

    "A congestion pricing scheme was proposed in 2007 by Mayor Michael Bloomberg as a component of PlaNYC, his strategic plan for the city. However, the proposal stalled in the New York State Assembly. In response to the 2017 state of emergency of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA), Governor Andrew Cuomo proposed a scheme similar to Bloomberg's that would take advantage of open road tolling technology and provide a revenue stream for the MTA. In 2019, following another two years of negotiation, Cuomo and Mayor Bill de Blasio agreed to implement congestion pricing in order to stem the ongoing transit crisis. However, the implementation was delayed by lack of action from the federal government. In November 2020, the MTA reported that the rollout could be postponed to 2023."

  62. brad says:

    Welp, Monday morning here. With this stinking mega-cold, we were laid up all last week. No more time to be sick, so it's off to work today. I'm long past the contagious stage – it's just the body still repairing the various damages.

    I learned that my employer will be firing everyone who hasn’t gotten the clot shot, so I’ve been looking for a new job or contract.

    If you want to change jobs, fine. Otherwise, why not pick your poison? If you don't trust the mRNA technology, fair enough, but then the J&J was developed the traditional way.

    stereotypes are stereotypes FOR A REASON

    This. Whenever one meets another person for the first time, it is entirely automatic to do a quick assessment: Tattoos? Clothing? Skin color? Hair style? Accent? These are the first indications as to what group the person comes from, and how you may need to interact with them.

    That initial assessment gets changes as more information about the person as an *individual* comes in. In the end, you will know the *individual* and not care about the rest.

    I mean, sure, the foreign-looking guy wearing the hoodie, approaching me in the train station late at night may just be lost, and looking for directions. But, given the circumstances, I'll treat him with piles of caution until I'm sure.

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  63. Geoff Powell says:

    @alan:

    so the Zone Charge doesn't apply to EVs?

    ULEZ charge, no. It's purely on CO2/NOx emissions.

    Congestion charge applies to all.

    G.

     

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