Today I need to do some plumbing repairs as well as continue the search.
I’ll be getting the truck ready for a test run too. Will take it to the same place I was last week, in convoy with sibs, to make sure it still runs. Need to get gas, air, and maybe an oil change first. Gonna stomp on the brakes pretty hard too.
Thanks for the input on brake lines.
n
I’m a bit late to this, but my new Honda says DOT 3 brake fluid only. I assume there’s a reason for it, so that’s the only thing it will ever get. Even assuming DOT4 is better in some way, I’m sure that sometime, somewhere, someone would mix them up.
You’d really think there’d be a universal hydraulic fluid that would work for brakes, power steering, and the transmission. I never understood why we need three different fluids for those.
“…my new Honda says DOT 3 brake fluid only. I assume there’s a reason for it, so that’s the only thing it will ever get. Even assuming DOT4 is better in some way, I’m sure that sometime, somewhere, someone would mix them up.”
On any vehicle newer than, say 1970, definitely stick with the manufacturer’s recommendation. There are some exceptions, but let’s put those aside here. The old DOT3 and DOT4 thing has gone on since DOT4 was introduced. Supposedly, 4 can be substituted for 3, but NOT the other way around. Also, they are supposed to be able to be mixed, but only if the system is spec’d for 3. I would believe that because of their chemical makeup. There is only a slight advantage to using 4, and that is negated if a significant amount of 3 is in the mix. For typical street vehicles, 3 is fine. There are some formulations that claim to be “low moisture activity,” and I would look for them, but the advantage is likely to be slight.
It is more important to make sure the moisture content in the fluid is low, and the only practical way is to change it. This especially applies to humid environments. One way to determine the moisture content is to simply look at the fluid, easy with the transparent reservoirs found in some cars. Watch for color changes. Not foolproof, but pretty good. Also, when the moisture content gets dangerous, the fluid can form jelly like clots. Definitely time to change. Moisture corrodes the internals of the system, not good. The old adage of a spongy pedal is masked with power brakes, so not too good on most cars until things get extreme: pedal to the floor. Yikes!
The easiest way to change is with a “power bleeder,” which can do the job quickly and thoroughly. This is usually the realm of the pro. The home hobbyist can do it alone, but the procedure is a bit tricky and messy.
The Californication of Texas rolls on. A statewide prohibition on mandatory paid sick leave has to be priority #1 of the legislature next year, but this situation exposes the weaknesses in Republican power in the state. Right now, between legislative sessions, the Governor has no recourse other than lawsuits.
https://woai.iheart.com/alternate/amp/2018-08-16-challenges-loom-as-city-council-considers-mandatory-sick-leave-law/
@Lynn, the folks with the “BETO” and “Repeal and Replace Sen. Ted Cruz” banners were back on the overpass near Franklin’s this morning.
I tried to bleed the surge brakes on my boat trailer. No luck. I was informed they are impossible to bleed manually. Disc brakes on both axles. All I did was waste a bottle of brake fluid.
“You’d really think there’d be a universal hydraulic fluid that would work for brakes, power steering, and the transmission. I never understood why we need three different fluids for those.”
I agree, but there isn’t. The days of Mil-H-5606 are long gone. Even the military has moved on from the once universal hydraulic fluid. The reasons are many, but put simply, some of the newer fluids are better for specific applications. Cars are now mandated to get better gas mileage, and this has forced them to be redesigned for, above all, lighter weight. This means smaller, more highly stressed components. Transmissions, brakes, and even power steering are affected in that order.
Transmissions need additives to aid clutch performance while providing lubrication for gears, especially the differential. One fluid.
Brakes need fluids with higher boiling points and low foaming for ABS. Another fluid.
Power steering might need fluid with high lubricity. Still another fluid.
Substitutions can be disastrous. Just don’t.
Don’t get me started on coolants. Hint: there could be universal coolants, but that would require cooperation, and the auto manufacturers are competitive.
Repeat: use what the manufacturer specifies. BUT keep up with the specs. For example, Chrysler now specifies ATF+4 for ALL post 1960-ish automatic transmissions. It is really good stuff, and better than almost all the older specified fluids. Truly universal. Not sure about other manufacturers.
Ray, your surge brakes are a special case. No experience here, but most likely you would have to compress or remove a big spring, and this might be risky. I recommend a pro.
Didn’t know surge brakes were still used on newer trailers. Just looked it up, and saw this is confined mostly to rental and boat trailers. Probably for simplicity.
Added, I know there are universal fluids that many shops use, but I would avoid them on principle.
Also, power bleeders for brakes contain fluid, and it can absorb moisture. Only use a trustworthy shop. I have no idea how to find one of those, but know they exist. Challenging.
In the service, we used silicone brake fluid universally. The one nice thing was the bleeder was ALSO universal – worked on everything we had. It used compressed air to force out the fluid from the wheel cylinders, so we had to be sure to top it off first. It was convenient. I do not recall problems with moisture then.
Biggest brake problems we had were the drum brakes on the Gamma Goats. They just sucked.
n.b. – that was 26+ years ago. Wow.
I use this handy device.
Easy to do a brake job by yourself. Just hook it up to your compressor. You just have to be careful about not pulling out too much fluid and sucking air into the system. you can also use it to extract other fluids. I use it to extract the oil from the lawn mower and other small engines.
Nope, no big spring that is dangerous. The difficult part was trying to move the surge cylinder back and forth to pump fluid. There is some resistance that cannot be easily overcome without a tow vehicle or something with some force to move the cylinder easily. There is also not a lot of movement, perhaps one inch or less.
Yes, boat trailers. Where the entire axle is totally submerged many times over the life of the trailer. Electric trailer brakes are not real fond of that procedure. Hydraulics really don’t care. Rentals because most vehicles don’t have the necessary brake controller for electric brakes on trailers. My current F-150 has a built-in controller that came with the towing package.
I have hydraulic discs on all four wheels of my trailer. Trailer originally came with brakes on one axle as required by law on two axle trailers. I had the trailer modified during the build to put brakes on both axles operating off the same system. About a $1K option to add.
The brakes really work extremely well. To back the trailer up you have to hook up the lights. There is a connection for the backup lights (also have those on the trailer) and that activated a solenoid to disable the trailer brakes. Tried backing up the trailer one time and forgot to hook up the lights. It was impossible to move the trailer. I can also feel the trailer brakes take hold when stopping. My stopping distance is not reduced much when pulling the trailer because of the brakes.
@JimL, I just knew someone would bring up silicone brake fluid! It’s in some ways the replacement for 5606, and my favorite for many reasons; but it is not compatible with ABS systems. Something to do with entrained air. Same reason it is almost never used in race cars. Still, would not hesitate to use it on older cars. Contrary to rumors, it can tolerate up to probably 10% conventional fluid, which means you can just “bleed it in.” In my use, it only goes into empty systems, where all old fluid is thoroughly purged. Truly a lifetime solution, pun intended.
Gama Goat! From what I have heard, deepest sympathies for folks who had to work on them. They do seem incredible on paper, but that’s all I know. A neighbor has a Mule with the Continental air cooled engine. I know, not in the same class, but a fun little vehicle. He says it can go almost anywhere, and will easily tip over if the operator is stupid. He has survived.
@ITguy1998, I have seen those fluid extractors, and might get one some day, now that I have my shop going. So far, I have made do with a device that looks like the body of a grease gun. It is harder to clean and use, but works quite well. Have also used a turkey baster, but those don’t last very long around petroleum fluids. Always have one from the dollar store, and it can be surprisingly handy.
I have vacuum bled brakes with a hand pump (Mityvac,) and it works. The usual caution is that air can be drawn in from leaks, but eliminating leaks is the whole point, right? Another problem is that the bleeder can leak air, making the process frustratingly slow. Pressure bleeding, either with a helper, or with an improvised homemade bleeder, is better.
Oh, and some cars can self-bleed. It is just sloooow. Might require tipping the car a bit 🙂
Also in Texas Californication news — Austin gets major league soccer … at taxpayer expense.
https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2018/08/16/austin-stadium-mls-team/amp/
Ray, your surge brakes seem great. I really like their simplicity, but they have a bad rep here. Not sure why. And, yes, I did mean that moving that piston was the challenge. However, a friend has an old heavy flatbed trailer, and it has a BIG spring on the hitch that is part of the surge braking system. That trailer has two axles with dual wheels (8 total wheels.) Bet that trailer weighs almost as much as many PU trucks.
When I said electric brakes, I meant electric over hydraulic (EOH). Know even less about these, but they seem to have some good features. Complex, maybe. I don’t do any significant towing, but might some day get a low flatbed two axle trailer. I would only need to tow it on flat terrain, but would likely get brakes, so am getting interested. Can’t have too much braking, IMO. I did some towing on dirt roads in the mountains, but wouldn’t do that again. No problems, but a bit scary on the steep parts. Maneuverability was also challenging and required planning. Was once young and adventuresome!
One of my uncles related a military brake fluid story to me back in 1984 or so. He was a navigator / bombardier on a B-52 in the 1970s and 1980s. He was based in Fort Worth, TX most of the time.
They were coming back from their daily trip to Alaska in a “D” model B-52. The D models did not have reversing thrusters on their jet engines. As they touched down, the pilot hit the brakes and the front brake line blew out. All of that hydraulic fluid hit the hot front brake and caught on fire immediately. He said the entire front of the plane was a big sheet of fire.
At 60 mph, they started jumping out of the plane. The pilot was the last man out as the plane rolled into the 300 ft deep lake at the end of the runway. I asked if they were carrying any “special” packages. He only said that the plane was lifted out of the lake by the next morning.
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7744397,-97.4466266,5158m/data=!3m1!1e3
They may have been drum brakes rather than disc brakes. Lot of stopping power in those four discs.
No significant springs in my system. Just a master hydraulic cylinder with a fluid reservoir above the cylinder. Valve controlled by a solenoid that will bypass the fluid to the disc calipers. Seems a fairly common arrangement on boat trailers as most of the boat trailers I have seen have the exact same system.
Never heard of those types of braking systems.
Check your state laws. If there is more than one axle brakes are required on at least one axle in TN. Probably close to the same in other states.
If you get electric brakes you will need to have a brake controller installed and wired back to the hitch. It will require one of the large round plugs with seven conductors (power, backup, brake, stop, left turn, right turn, ground). The amount of electrical power supplied to the brakes, and thus the braking force, is controlled by the towing vehicle when braking. You can also manually apply the trailer brakes with a control lever.
The thing with surge brakes is that no electrical connection is required. The systems are inherently water proof. The system is very simple. Put pressure on the trailer tongue and the brakes are applied. Disadvantage is that going down a hill the brakes are partially applied as the trailer pushes against the vehicle if the hill is steep enough.
I have been towing trailers since I was 16 and can get along quite well. My backing skills are excellent. I back the boat into it’s covered parking space about three feet wider than the boat in one attempt almost every time using only the mirrors on the truck. Learned to do that from backing a hay trailer down a 150 foot space that was two feet wider than the trailer and no view of the back.
That is why I opted for the additional brakes on the second axle. The extra money was a small price to pay for the added stopping power. Boat and trailer come in at 6,000 pounds and that is too much weight for one set of brakes in my opinion.
Taking a break and clearing some emails, ARRL included this link to FEMA preparedness resources, specifically one on the Bug Out, or Shelter in Place? question.
https://www.fema.gov/plan
linked here so I’ll have it later.
The hunt continues. And met with the funeral home regarding a memorial/ celebration of life. That was like moisturizing with Tabasco.
n
Ray, thanks for your inputs. We have a lot of old stuff around here, including mil surplus. For instance, I have never seen a trailer with disc brakes, but see plenty with pintle hitches. I tried to look up brake laws, and they seem pretty complex. CA seems simple, but depends on the date of manufacture of the trailer. All recent cargo trailers (as opposed to RV, camping, and 5th wheel) with a gross weight over 1500 pounds need brakes. In my instance that definitely means brakes, because I wouldn’t have a smaller trailer. Also, CA requires that multiple axle trailers need brakes on all wheels, if brakes are required. This is from the DMV web site, but there are other factors, and it can be confusing.
Interestingly, my friend who owns the big flatbed just came by to drop off some more pallets of pavers. He said that it is common around here to find lowboy flatbed two axle trailers with brakes on only one axle. When I asked if they are legal, he didn’t know. He does a lot of heavier towing, and says enforcement is very lax. He also says he would never go out of town without “good” brakes. I would agree.
I have some research to do. I want to be safe, not just legal, and that probably means brakes on all trailer wheels. As to which type, research. OTOH, my friend says to not overlook renting. There are lots of trailers for rent locally, and he thinks the cost might be cheap. Definitely worth considering for occasional use. He has had a lot of trouble with trailer tires lately, and hasn’t found any that will last him more than a couple of years without rotting. I have seen them, and they always fail before they wear out.
When I meant maneuvering, I didn’t mean backing, just tight spaces with gullies and poor surfaces. I’m pretty good at backing, as long as I can go slowly and concentrate.
And there is a major nationwide disaster exercise in just 5 days
https://www.eiscouncil.org/EarthEx.aspx
check it out.
n
Just replaced the tires on my trailer. I had them for 15 years. One of them would no longer hold air for more than a couple of days. So I replaced all four tires.
If you purchase a trailer it does not cost that much more to have brakes installed on all four spindles. Disc brakes seem better than drum brakes, easier to inspect, more stopping power. Worth the investment in my opinion. Surge brakes seem to work quite well. Only issue I have had is due to tongue that swivels. One time when I put it back in work position one of the return lines was pinched. That caused the brakes to drag. Not a problem with the brakes, just the operator.
One thing to never neglect are the wheel bearings and especially the lubrication of those bearings. I have compression cups on my wheels which keep the grease under pressure. That is to avoid problems with the bearings being warm, being dunked in cold water and sucking in water. Being under pressure the bearing cup will just keep the bearings under pressure.
My prior boat trailer lost a bearing while I was towing (when else would it fail?). When I got home and was backing the boat into the parking space I noticed that one wheel (it was a single axle trailer) was not right. The wheel hub was scorching. Not much more I could do to damage so I just backed in anyway. Both inner and outer bearings were gone and the spindle was riding on the hub. The wheel should have fallen off. Required I replace the entire axle and both hubs. Tough to do with the boat on the trailer. Jacks and jack stands required. Old axle had the hub spindle on top of the axle, new axle had the hub spindle below the axle. Required relocating the axles on the springs. Those bolts were on tight and required a lot of effort to remove and replace. Lesson learned. Check your hubs and bearings.
If you are only going to use the trailer two or three times a year renting would be something to seriously consider. No maintenance issues, no worry about replacing tires, etc. Find the cost and calculate if it is cost effective.
Ray, thanks for the info on thermostats yesterday, but that’s not how I parse the manual. It seems to say “Set it for 4PM if you want it to come on at 4PM”. Maybe the journey from Chinese to English had a layover at Arabic, or Vulcan.
I had a Honeywell smart thermostat. That is how it operated. My system was always on, I just changed the temperature. At night I would have the temperature drop to 60f in the winter. I then wanted the temperature at 70f at 7:00 AM. Many times the heater would be activated at 5:30 AM to get the temperature to 70f by the requested time of 7:00 AM.
Replaced that Honeywell with an Ecobee. Same thing happens, with heating and cooling. Set a temperature to occur at a certain time and the system does what is necessary to reach that goal. Even with cooling. The thermostat does not change to the temperature at the given time, it gets the temperature to the requested setting at the time requested.
We have a home made trailer that is large enough to haul a small tractor on. Think, 22HP Yanmar with shredder deck.
Loaned it to a friend. He went to south Austin, picked up a house full of Pergo type stuff, hauled it to his daughter’s house on the edge of Georgetown and Hutto. (I’ve been there, no way do I know where I was.) He hit a curb? Got half way through Leander and the bearings on one side blew.
Nice. He left the trailer at an oil change place. We had to have it hauled home and then we replaced the axle. Tractor Supply. All in all, I’m out $400 plus the work.
No apology. No offer to kick in for repairs. Someone is never going to borrow my trailer again. Tractor Supply rents trailers.
Anyway, spray paint the springs to mark where the axle is attached, and cut the u-bolts off. It’s good now.
but that’s not how I parse the manual
My thermostat has the option to anticipate. It’s a nice feature so I have it enabled.
Springs had pins and the axle had location holes so everything would go back in the right place.
It was a very uneasy feeling working under the trailer even though it was supported by jack stands. I think my axle was about $150.00 and included hubs and bearings. I took the bearings to a local mechanic and had them pressure packed with marine grease before I installed the bearings and hubs.
It was a pain to do the installation because the bolts were so tight on the shackles and spring supports. I tightened them as tight as I could with breaker bar. Set the play for the wheel bearings. Made a couple of trips with the trailer and then reset the play on the bearings again. Also removed the grease cups and put pressure cups back on the new hubs.
Got it Ray. We didn’t mess with the springs or their mounting. Just used the angle grinder to cut the rusty u-bolts holding the bad axle to the springs. No location holes or pins here.
The axle from Tractor Supply had hubs and everything. Even has mounting plates for brakes. U-bolts are not stocked near the axles…. marketing fail as far as I’m concerned.
We didn’t get under the trailer other than legs. Just cranked the tongue down, cinder blocks under the back end, crank the tongue up and cinder blocks on the front.
Really bad idea using cinder blocks. They can fail quickly and catastrophically . Always use jack stands or wood blocks.
I had to crawl under the trailer to get to the shackle bolts to get them off. Sprayed with penetrating oil and let them sit for a couple of hours. Still on strong enough to require a trip under the trailer to get both arms and maximum leverage to remove the bolts.
I got my axle from a trailer supply place. Took in the old axle and they had a replacement. But the spindle drop was different. Old was on the bottom of the springs, new was on top of the springs. To get the new axle required removing one end of the springs.
The other thing that surge brakes offer is a cable that goes to the brake plunger. This is hooked to the location on the hitch where you attach the safety chains or cables (hope you have two, crossed under the tongue). If the trailer disconnects for any reason the cable will be yanked and will immediately lock the trailer brakes.
Yep. There’s a reason I hate people. Individuals, groups, both sexes, all 57 genders, all religions, ethnicities, and hair colors. Yes, I admit it, I’m a racist. I hate the human race.
Yep. There’s a reason I hate people. Individuals, groups, both sexes, all 57 genders, all religions, ethnicities, and hair colors. Yes, I admit it, I’m a racist. I hate the human race.
Dude, have I got a book for you !
https://www.amazon.com/Emergence-David-R-Palmer-ebook/dp/B07F2SG4TG/?tag=ttgnet-20
99.9999999% of the entire human race dies in the first chapter. Just about the only people left are the Homo post hominems. And the protagonist is a 11 year old girl. And her three ft tall Hyacinthine Macaw, aka Terry her idiot brother.
Heh. That’s already on my list for my daughter.
“Yep. There’s a reason I hate people. Individuals, groups, both sexes, all 57 genders, all religions, ethnicities, and hair colors. Yes, I admit it, I’m a racist. I hate the human race.”
So, I guess you hate me. You’re my kind of guy!
@SteveF
My wife posted this in the bank where she worked:
Dilbert–Hate everyone
I wouldn’t join any club that would have me as a member, right?
Decided not to test dad’s pickup with a2 1/2 hour trip thru rural MI, after dark. Sibs are smarter than me. Here safe, going to bed.
Nick
My wife posted this in the bank where she worked:
Dilbert–Hate everyone
One of the young’n’s at work hadn’t seen the “Dilbert” TV show so I pulled the “Bob Bastard” episode out of my DVD set and loaned it to him.
Looking at the other episodes, I realized that the series would never make the air today, especially the last two episodes.
Heh. That’s already on my list for my daughter.
Good to hear that. But, I suggested the book for you too.